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  • rajuseattle
    07-15 01:58 AM
    Rajuram,

    The petition you are asking us to sign doesnt have legal standings. It doesnt have any strong argument to change USCIS's interpretation of allocating the spill over VISA numbers.

    Instead we should all focus our enrgy in getting Rep Lofgren's bill for recapturing the wasted VISA numbers.

    IV has launched the initiative by sending the Petition/letter to your local US congress reps and senators.

    IV petition is urging US congress and senate to consider Rep Lofgren's imigration relief bills for the legal immigrants, which will recapture the wasted VISA numbers and they are in the range of about 200,000, this will be good to retrogressed countries. Apart from IV their are other pro legal immigrant lobbiests who are working hard to get these pro legal immigration relief bills passed this year, but due to slowing economy anything US congress wants to do for immigration relief comes under scrutiny by anti-immigration forces and they try to kill these relief bills, on the other hand their are some groups in US congress and senate who wants the amnesty for all illegal immigrants and they are strongly opposing any kind of relief just to legal immigrants.

    Its a long battle ahead of us, and hope staying together and working with IV will help us rather than having war of words between EB-3 I and EB-2 I.

    Current letter writen by pani is inappropriate and it doesnt make our case strong.

    For Pani too, I am perosnally not against him, we all are frustrated with this GC situation, but unless USCIS gets more VISA numbers from congress, they can not do anything.

    I guess illegal immigrant lobby and some of the anti immigrant forces in Washington DC are strong enough and at this time they are influencing the law makers to not pass any pro legal immgrant relief.

    Our only hope is if IV succeed in getting some relief from US congress...or at some point the nurses from india and phillipines stop consuming the EB-3 quota. Remember when we were all stuck in the state employment agencies and DOL backlog centres, they were allowed to file I-140 without labor certifications and they were the major beneficary for some of the recaptured VISA numbers and the July 2007 VB fiasco when USCIS approved some unprecedented EB-3 India VISA numbers.




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  • Rolling_Flood
    08-05 09:00 AM
    Show me where it says in the law that a "person's eligibility decides EB1/2/3"?
    Your job demands an EB3 and no higher, thus your company filed an EB3.

    If you think you should be EB2 instead, then find another job or another company. What do you not understand?

    And please refrain from using foul language, this is my first, and final, request to you, sir.

    I am not anti-immigrant, just anti-porting and anti-interfiling.

    As i said earlier you have Zero understanding of these things and that's why you came to waste peoples time. You could be an anti-immigrant as well.

    "GC is for future Job and one single person could be eligible for EB3 / EB2 / EB1 any kind of jobs - its the person's ELIGIBILITY which matters " - understand dumbo ?




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  • mheggade
    07-15 10:35 AM
    <SARCASTIC> Ignorance is Bliss. </SARCASTIC>

    I just hope sanity makes a come back and people will see that the new visa over flow interpretation is advantages to EB3-I.

    OLD over flow interpretation

    EB1 ROW ------->EB2 ROW---------->EB3 ROW.

    New over flow interpretation.

    EB1 ---------------->EB2------------------------>EB3
    (Any chargeability) (Any chargeability) (Any chargeability)

    Only condition is visa should be allotted to the oldest PD in the lateral distribution irrespective of the country chargeability. That's the reason EB2 I and EB C are having same cutoff dates and all EB3 is U. DOS took away the advantage of ROW and gave it to oldest PD in the category.

    With this new interpretation EB3 I dates can make rapid progress and I fail to understand why EB3-I is upset about this.




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  • sc3
    08-05 08:29 PM
    see below


    Then check. Context is everything sometimes.


    I checked, everything I said before, I stand by it.



    There was no point, I said I did not believe it. I was showing the original poster that using a large black brush to tar a whole group of people is offensive and inappropriate. At least read my whole post before responding. I see I hit a nerve though. So it's ok for you t claim that EB2 means nothing and is ill gotten but not ok for me to talk about EB3?


    So, I used your black brush to paint over your argument to the argument you claim to resolve. You should expect that, when you try to sling mud on others, you should be ready to get some mud on you too. You cant go complaining when you get the taste of your own medicine.


    Bull crap. Don't make me open my mouth anout labor my friens. best we don't open this up.


    Again you seem to be implying that we are getting our labor for free (or that we dont deserve it)... Can you say why? Agreed there are some (a lot?) who use loopholes etc, but then that is not restricted to EB3s alone.



    I'm not in IT. the more I hear IT folks go at each other, the less I think of the field frankly. And yes, i do not know about you but I met several people who came in the tech boom, whose jobs a monkey could do. Sorry, just the truth.


    I am not in IT either. I am into software research, but IT folks do the work that requires skills. In your home environment, you can slap-on machines and routers etc. and it works because you dont need performance, and because some IT and some developer sat together to bring out a product that was easy to use. In production environment, you need to support 1000s of "consumers". Performance reliability etc. is the key, and it takes a lot skills to manage. I am fairly skilled when it comes to computers, but still I will not match most of the IT folks that work in my company.

    If monkeys could really do the job, and the managers hired humans, probably, the company was being managed by monkeys.



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  • kaisersose
    04-14 12:00 PM
    No body can predict how much it is going down exactly. But you can predict it is going down considerably.
    My point is that the house price is out of whack with income. I don't see the logic in why it would not go down. The whole mess is started because people started looking at houses as investment. Buying now and seeing the housing value drop won't be fun.
    Whether you sell your house or not, it matters when you buy. You don't buy at the top of the bubble.

    It is not going down everywhere...I am in a location where people are buying houses like mad and the prices are actually better than last year.

    And yet, some people in my location are thinking about nothing but resale. They are not able to see a home as anything other than an investment and I am referring to such people in my earlier post.




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  • Marphad
    12-22 04:43 PM
    I attended one meeting lectured by Mr. Arun Shourie. He gave a classic example of people's mentality:

    In West Bengal, in early 90s Banks wanted to introduce computerized system. Union opposed heavily keep saying this is "Inhuman" and against the labor. And to the surprise, union won. They had to postpone plans to introduce computers on lower level.

    Meanwhile, private banks came in. Their services were much better and faster and nationalized banks started facing serious customer satisfaction problems consequeted to business loss. Then the same union came on road against nationalized banks - actually broke couple of them like a riot saying that these people are stealing our breads.


    Isn't this the same some religious organizations are doing? They are not training kids for professional world. And then they teach people like Kasab that other side of border is rich and we are poor.

    Think over this.



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  • pbojja
    07-15 10:25 AM
    Can some one explain why do we want send the "WISH LIST" letters to DOL now ? Why not when a ROW GC applicant was getting a GC well a head of very well qualified Ind/Chi applicant ?

    Fortunately they fixed the spill over ,Indian/Chinese EB2 applicants can get their GCs sooner now , are we trying to mess this up ? I know you are going to say we are not against EB2 . I m not against ROW applicants but can I get my GC before a ROW applicant by sending a letter to DOL stating that I m more qualified than the other applicant can you send my GC please?




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  • Macaca
    09-21 09:33 AM
    Lobbyist Silvertooth tries to take emotion out of immigration fight (http://thehill.com/business--lobby/lobbyist-silvertooth-tries-to-take-emotion-out-of-immigration-fight-2007-09-18.html) By Jim Snyder | The Hill, September 18, 2007

    When the Senate debated immigration, lobbyist R. Craig Silvertooth became a leading voice of comprehensive reform.

    As head of government affairs for the National Roofing Contractors Association (NRCA) and co-chairman of the Essential Worker Immigration Coalition (EWIC), an umbrella group of employers that supported comprehensive reform, Silvertooth, 39, appeared on CNN, Fox News and PBS�s �The NewsHour with Jim Lehrer� to defend a bill that would have provided a road to legal status for as many as 11 million illegal immigrants.

    After those appearances, Silvertooth found that opponents of the measure had a few choice words of their own, which they would leave on his office voice mail.

    �People would leave profane messages,� he said. �They wanted to know why we hate America. Why we can�t hire Americans. How much I am getting from the Mexican government.�

    The issue tends to bring out the �worst in people,� he said. �It�s overly emotional.�

    Silvertooth blames the intense anger for scaring members off the bill, which he contends offered a reasonable response to a labor shortage his industry and other contractors face.

    To critics, through, the bill offered amnesty to illegal immigrants. The three weeks between when Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) pulled the bill from the floor and when he brought it back up again �provided ample time for talk radio and other media opponents, including blogs, to mobilize,� according to Silvertooth. He estimates his side lost three or four votes during that time.

    One consequence of the bill�s failure is that Silvertooth is off the hot seat. With comprehensive reform dead, he doesn�t appear on TV anymore. But the issue hasn�t gone away for his industry.

    Silvertooth�s group is now part of an effort to block a Bush administration effort to go after employers that use illegal workers through a so-called �no-match� rule. His work for EWIC keeps him active in efforts to tweak immigration laws through less ambitious measures that, for example, target H-1B visas used by high-tech companies.

    Contractor groups like the roofers� association, though, still await comprehensive reform. The sector employs nearly 12 million people, with about a quarter of the workers having Hispanic roots. The Bureau of Labor Statistics estimated in 2005 that nearly 30 percent of the roofing workforce was undocumented.

    �This is life or death for the industry. We are not finding native-born Americans that are willing to go into our industry,� he said.

    Given the stakes for contractors, various trade groups and companies banded together to form EWIC.

    Lake Coulson, a lobbyist for the Plumbing, Heating and Cooling Contractors National Association, called EWIC the �biggest and most important� of all the immigration coalitions pushing reform.

    �As one of the co-chairs of EWIC, he was front and center in the debate,� Coulson said of Silvertooth. �He�s been a terrific ally.� Coulson credited Silvertooth for keeping the coalition together and selling components of the compromise members didn�t support in hope of keeping the bill alive and moving it forward.

    A native of Texas, Silvertooth was a former staff aide to Sens. Phil Gramm (R-Texas) and Kay Bailey Hutchison (R-Texas) before working on Robert Dole�s 1996 presidential campaign.

    He then worked as a fundraiser for Georgetown University before becoming a lobbyist for a trade group of air conditioner manufacturers. Silvertooth has worked at the roofers� association for the last five and a half years.

    Founded in 1886, the association is one of the oldest trade groups in town. It now represents 4,200 companies, mostly small businesses with fewer than 35 employees each.

    Those businesses are going to have a hard time complying with the no-match rule. The effort, led by the Department of Homeland Security, would create new responsibilities for employers to ensure their workers have proper documentation, and new penalties for failing to comply.

    Government estimates are that there are 17.5 million errors in the Social Security database. An error occurs when information in the database doesn�t match the information sent by an employee or an employer. But there are only an estimated 11.6 million illegal immigrants.

    The NRCA has joined the United Fresh Produce Association, the American Nursery and Landscape Association, the U.S. Chamber of Commerce and the International Franchise Association in an effort to block the implementation of the Bush plan in federal court.

    �We�re playing defense. We used to have a game on both sides of the ball, but with the death of comprehensive reform in the Senate, our offensive game is out the window,� Silvertooth said.

    �Hopefully, the 111th Congress will be more amenable to reform.�

    By then, Silvertooth may play a less central role in the debate. He is soon to take over as executive director of a spin-off trade group that will focus on green-building standards. The group does not yet have a name.

    While that debate promises to be less controversial than the one on immigration, roofers did have some concerns with efforts by Democrats to raise new energy standards for buildings. The NRCA was one of a dozen groups that wrote House members to express concern with a bill to promote energy efficiency standards. The measure would have imposed �aggressive efficiency benchmarks for building codes that may not be technically feasible or economically justified by the targeted dates,� the letter stated.

    In this instance, lawmakers heard the concerns and adopted an amendment to the bill giving the Energy Department the power to ensure new standards could be met without creating economic damage to the building industries.



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  • niklshah
    08-05 08:24 PM
    "Originally Posted by lfwf
    I have seen you post before, and with this post you lost some of my respect. You need to be rational and coherent if you want to debate the issue. Not emotional and silly."

    More hollow rhetoric from lfwf... someone that fails to see coherent logic and arguments made out in posts and instead claims that there is none :). Maybe, Inglis is the prablem, eh? LOL.

    Obviously, lfwf's 'respect' is worth a lot ;)

    I've gotten my days worth of laughs reading these protectionist jokers' weak arguments and empty threats of lawsuits.

    LOL!



    see how stupid highly educated community is?.....the guy who started the thread is not writing anything and people are fighting......

    the guy who wrote is definately not any of us i mean he is not in green card line.......

    people chill.....

    take it easy, when ur turn comes u will get ur gc.....try to participate in IV action item and donate if u can..

    i am an EB3




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  • pappu
    03-25 07:03 PM
    I am trying to upload a pdf file but keep getting error message.

    temporaryjob140denial.pdf:
    Upload of file failed.

    It is way below the size limit posted for pdf file.

    any ideas?

    send it to info at immigrationvoice.org and we can upload it.

    It is a known bug that we could not fix in the forum. Some members are unable to upload files.



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  • senthil1
    08-02 11:29 PM
    AC21 tells that one can leave the job after 6 months of filing I485. But the green card is for future job and if anyone is not working for a company after receiving permanent job then green card can be considered as fraud.
    These 2 rules are contraditory in nature.
    Some of my friends quit the job after 6 months of I485 but after receiving GC they went back and worked for a few months.

    Generally USCIS does not have time and resource to track this. But I think they do randomly. One of my other friend resigned the job and he was doing business. He got interview and he postponed the interview to get a job and letter from his previous Company.

    If anyone is happy in their job can stay there till receiving gc. In case of layoffs there is no choice one need to invoke. Even if need to resign the Company it is better try to maintain good relationship. After 8 years GC is denied that will place in tough situation though it will happen for a few cases




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  • pappu
    08-11 12:44 PM
    The USCIS's "Yearbook of Immigration Statistics" is a valuable source of info in any immigration debate!
    http://www.uscis.gov/graphics/shared/statistics/yearbook/index.htm

    One can catch on lies a lot of anti-immigration jerks and even the USCIS themselves using their very own data! You can clearly see how the number of employment based Green cards changed, for example, how sharply it dropped in 2003 for some reason (not in 2002 which could be explained by 9/11!). They have no explanation for this. Apparently they were told to do so. The sabotage is obvious. There are more interesting facts there. Say, one can check if a particular country really has contributed too many immigrants in the last years to be excluded from the GC lottery or not, while another country is for some (political) reason still eligible despite it exceeded the limit.
    thanks for the link. I have forwarded this info to a statistician for analysis and if we can get some favorable arguments based on that data that can be presented as charts and graphs by IV.



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  • NeverEndingH1
    12-17 04:10 PM
    LOL!

    Since everyone is posting what they want, I guess I can also just post anything here....



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  • GCNirvana007
    03-23 01:06 PM
    well..I guess..I will take Infopass and checkout whats going on..
    I know my file is at local office..not sure if they transferred it back to NBC or TSC..(atleast there are no LUDs)..

    and I hope whoever called me can see it in their system that this case is pending at local office..so dont know why they wanted all the detailsfrom me rather than taking from the file..may be thats how they work..


    but I am heading to Infopass have enough doubts now :cool:

    Hope you get a knowledgable IO at the infopass. During my infopass, i taught something new to the IO about immigration !.



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  • nogc_noproblem
    08-26 08:54 PM
    Recent Quips form Late Night

    "Yesterday, President Bush announced there are going to be some big changes in intelligence in the White House. Yeah, he's leaving." --Jay Leno

    "Yesterday, Bill Clinton was giving a speech, he told a group of supporters that his wife Hillary is the person he most wants to spend time with. Yeah, apparently Clinton likes to start every speech with a joke, sort of loosen things up a little bit, get people happy, relaxed." --Conan O'Brien

    "But I think the U.S. is going to do well, particularly in swimming, I think we have a very strong swimming time this year for the Olympics, yeah, that's right. Dick Cheney in particular looks great in the freestyle waterboarding." --David Letterman

    "Well listen, Barack Obama accused Republicans of trying to make others fear him, because, and I quote, he 'doesn't look like the other presidents on the dollar bill.' So the choice is, do you want to elect a guy who doesn't look like the president on the dollar bill, or do you want to elect a guy who looks older than the president on the dollar bill?" --Jay Leno

    "John McCain's daughter announced she's writing a children's book based on her father's life. I think that's very nice, yeah. The children's book is called 'James and the Giant Prostate.'" --Conan O'Brien

    "Yeah that's the big talk, they say Barack Obama could decide to go with another woman. See that's what killed John Edwards' chances of being VP, he decided to go with another woman." --Jay Leno




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  • msp1976
    02-16 10:45 AM
    If your proposed legislation is defeated, there is frequently another opportunity to reintroduce it. Don�t be discouraged. Often it takes several tries to pass a measure, especially one that seeks to bring about an important change.

    If you win, do not get complacent. Monitor implementation and make sure your legislation is fully funded. Look out for opposition attempts to undo or diminish your victory by trying to repeal your legislation, filing litigation to overturn it, or seeking regulations to significantly weaken its implementation.



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  • Berkeleybee
    05-17 01:31 PM
    My only suggestion to learning01 and IV is this.......... If Lou Dobbs can help you you should use his help. You do not know what his thoughts are on legal immigration. If he says that he does not support your cause, you can move on and atleast know where he stands.

    If IV is talking to lawmakers from both parties, why cant we speak to all sides of the media?

    Qualified_trash,

    IV core members have only 24 hours a day to do IV work and their full time jobs. As such, we have to channel our resources in the most productive way possible. Lou Dobbs is the media equivalent of FAIR, NumbersUSA, Tom Tancredo and company [Do get on to Lexis-Nexis and find out more about him.] We are civil in our encounters with the representatives of these groups, but it is not a productive use of our time to engage with them more than this.

    As for dealing with lawmakers -- there too we spend our time productively. We haven't been hanging out with Jeff Sessions and James Sensenbrenner. We use other more reasonable lawmakers to work out deals with the anti-immigrant wing.

    best,
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  • nogc_noproblem
    08-06 11:56 AM
    A cardiologist died and was given an elaborate funeral.

    A huge heart covered in flowers stood behind the casket during the service. Following the eulogy, the heart opened, and the casket rolled inside. The heart then closed, sealing the doctor in the beautiful heart forever.

    At that point, one of the mourners burst into laughter. When confronted, he said, "I'm sorry, I was just thinking of my own funeral. You see I'm a gynecologist."

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  • Macaca
    02-29 07:21 AM
    In Defense of Lobbying (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/02/28/AR2008022803232.html?hpid=opinionsbox1) By Charles Krauthammer | WP, Feb 29

    Everyone knows the First Amendment protects freedom of religion, speech, press and assembly. How many remember that, in addition, the First Amendment protects a fifth freedom -- to lobby?

    Of course it doesn't use the word lobby. It calls it the right "to petition the Government for a redress of grievances." Lobbyists are people hired to do that for you, so that you can actually stay home with the kids and remain gainfully employed rather than spend your life in the corridors of Washington.

    To hear the candidates in this presidential campaign, you'd think lobbying is just one notch below waterboarding, a black art practiced by the great malefactors of wealth to keep the middle class in a vise and loose upon the nation every manner of scourge: oil dependency, greenhouse gases, unpayable mortgages and those tiny entrees you get at French restaurants.

    Lobbying is constitutionally protected, but that doesn't mean we have to like it all. Let's agree to frown upon bad lobbying, such as getting a tax break for a particular industry. Let's agree to welcome good lobbying -- the actual redress of a legitimate grievance -- such as protecting your home from being turned to dust to make way for some urban development project.

    There is a defense of even bad lobbying. It goes like this: You wouldn't need to be seeking advantage if the federal government had not appropriated for itself in the 20th century all kinds of powers, regulations, intrusions and manipulations (often through the tax code) that had never been presumed in the 19th century and certainly were never imagined by the Founders. What appears to be rent-seeking is thus redress of a larger grievance -- insufferable government meddling in what had traditionally been considered an area of free enterprise.

    Good lobbying, on the other hand, requires no such larger contextual explanation. It is a cherished First Amendment right -- necessary, like the others, to protect a free people against overbearing and potentially tyrannical government.

    What would be an example of petitioning the government for a redress of a legitimate grievance? Let's say you're a media company wishing to acquire a television station in Pittsburgh. Because of the huge federal regulatory structure, you require the approval of a government agency. In this case it's called the Federal Communications Commission.

    Now, one of the roles of Congress is to make sure that said bureaucrats are interpreting and enforcing Congress's laws with fairness and dispatch. All members of Congress, no matter how populist, no matter how much they rail against "special interests," zealously protect this right of oversight. Therefore, one of the jobs of the chairman of the Senate Commerce Committee is to ensure that the bureaucrats of the FCC are doing their job.

    What would constitute not doing their job? A textbook example would be the FCC sitting two full years on a pending application to acquire a Pittsburgh TV station. There could hardly be a better case of a legitimate "petition for a redress" than that of the aforementioned private entity asking the chairman of the appropriate oversight committee to ask the tardy bureaucrats for a ruling. So the chairman does that, writing to the FCC demanding a ruling -- any ruling -- while explicitly stating that he is asking for no particular outcome.

    This, of course, is precisely what John McCain did on behalf of Paxson Communications in writing two letters to the FCC in which he asked for a vote on the pending television-station acquisition. These two letters are the only remotely hard pieces of evidence in a 3,000-word front-page New York Times article casting doubt on John McCain's ethics.

    Which is why what was intended to be an expos¿ turned into a farce, compounded by the fact that the other breathless revelation turned out to be thrice-removed rumors of an alleged affair nine years ago.

    It must be said of McCain that he has invited such astonishingly thin charges against him because he has made a career of ostentatiously questioning the motives and ethics of those who have resisted his campaign finance reform and other measures that he imagines will render Congress influence-free.

    Ostentatious self-righteousness may be a sin, but it is not a scandal. Nor is it a crime or a form of corruption. The Times's story is a classic example of sloppy gotcha journalism. But it is also an example of how the demagoguery about lobbying has so penetrated the popular consciousness that the mere mention of it next to a prominent senator is thought to be enough to sustain an otherwise vaporous hit piece.

    Free advice to the K Street crowd: Consider a name change. Wynum, Dynum and Bindum: Redress Petitioners.




    mariner5555
    04-25 02:45 PM
    I also thought that pitching in the home buying by GC folks would make a great argument in front of law makers. But there was a very sensible posting by our spokes person Mark B.

    He said, he would not put home buying by GC folks as a main selling point for our cause. May be he will say this point as a half joke-half serious manner while discussing our core selling point. The core selling point being that the US is losing talent by not giving us GCs in a timely manner.
    let me give my views as to why Mark and others are missing the main point that I am trying to make. agreed using this as the main point may not work ..but this has to be a very important point. at the back of their mind - the policy makers know that some talent will definitely leave but lot will stay back (and they will keep paying USCIS money). even if people go back to India or China ..who will employ them ..it is the same MNC / big US corporations ..
    (so they know some talent will leak away ..but majority will stay back ..you just need to know the quota system / political system in India and china ..and automatically you will know that the talented guys will do everything to prevent their children from going through that ..)
    the second point is for the admin fix (which I guess can be done by president without congress approval) ..in every poll ..the President has a low ranking ..the last thing that he needs is to be blamed for this recession too ..
    so during their meetings if DHS or others were to suggest that more immigrants would buy more stuff here (rather than buying houses in India / china) ..if they were more sure of their status ..the admin fix would have greater chance of success ..




    gcisadawg
    12-22 02:37 AM
    If that's what your experience has been, its good news.
    Overall, my experience has been completely opposite but if most Pakistanis are anti-terrorism as you say, half the battle is already won. I am also beginning to a get a sense that this has embarrased lot of muslims....and its set them thinking.

    However, how do you propose we bring the terrorists to book? Attack Pakistan? Bomb the terrorist camps out? Wait for another attack to happen, wait for your own family in Mumbai to be wiped out? And exchange hateful words on IV? Release the terrorists in exchange for political hostages or fedd them dal, chapatis in Indian prisons?

    Justice doesn't come magically or does it?

    Well, one thing I can think of is how we treat the dead terrorists. In case of Parliament, Ashkardam and Mumbai attack, security forces killed the terrorists while they were killing innocents. As usual, Pakistan disowned them.
    Publicise very very heavily and spread the word that these dead bodies would be given non-islamic burial. Hit where it hurts them...After giving non-islamic rites, spread the word that next terrorist that gets killed would get more drastic treatment.

    BUT ensure that this treatment would be only for the foreign terrorists who are killed by security forces while doing their act and that are disowned by their country. It can be easily misused also. This should ONLY be done if nobody claims ownership of the body.

    The story we hear about Kasab is that he was a looser and a petty criminal who was brainwashed. If he and his ilks are willing to get brainwashed religiously then they can not discount the effect of propaganda about non-islamic rites for their dead body and possibly it might deter them from taking that ultimate step.

    Take a survey among the Muslims in Bombay to see if they support giving non-islamic rites for the 'orphaned' dead terrorists. I'm sure most of the sensible Muslims are outraged and they would agree to it especially after seeing what they saw on the TV. Before the killer's gun, there is no religion but only the intention to kill.



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